President Maithripala Sirisen last week unveiled the Sustainable Era Initiative which would set the country's development path. Prof Mohan Munasinghe, founding chairman of the Munasinghe Institute for Development and honorary senior advisor to the government was asked by the President to help set up an expert Commission which would draw up the Strategic Framework of this initiative. In an interview with the Daily News, Prof. Munasinghe highlighted that while inputs from the people would be sought when drawing up the framework, it will also help the government make its development programs more consistent and integrated.

Excerpts:

Q. Could you explain briefly what the sustainability era initiative is and how will it impact the people?

A. There will be a special expert commission appointed by the President and I am helping to set it up. We are in the process of identifying members, who will be experts in specific areas of sustainable development. The document is a strategic document which will flesh out the vision of the sustainable era which the President outlined on January 2. It will hopefully show the national sustainable path to be followed by not only the government but also civil society and the business community. The report will be written in simple and clear language and it will follow a very inclusive process. We will get our experts to cast their nets widely as they produce the early drafts. Well before the final report, there will be extensive consultations not just with other experts but also the public.

The report thus will be owned by the people. We hope it will guide the President, and also empower the people. For example, If the report identifies broad policy options to alleviate poverty or save energy, it should also highlight where people can contribute at a personal level? At a community level?, and so forth.

Q. When you go to the people, how will you get this information you need? Does everyone understand the meaning of sustainability?

A. Yes, but we won't necessarily go to them at the launch stage. In the initial stages we have to digest a lot of existing information generated by the government, businesses and civil society, and the experts know where to get them. We can also solicit suggestions. This will be put together in a preliminary first draft. And that will be taken to the people. For example, you cannot simply go and ask the person on the street what they think of the sustainable development goals (SDG). But on the other hand, if we have a first draft which says we want to make sure that all the have access to water and that it may take the next five years to achieve, you can go and ask the dry zone farmer for his views. He might say, ‘we can't wait five years, why can't you give it to me in two?' So we put out something which is relevant to them- with a certain target, time frame and how to achieve it. Then we can get a more meaningful response.

Q. This would then be the first time in the country that someone is asking the people their views on environment/climate change and how to cope?

A. Yes. In the sense that the consultative process we hope to follow will be quite broad and inclusive. This document is not a plan in the sense that we already have a planning apparatus, like the Prime Minister's Ministry of National Policies and Economic Development, the Ministry of Finance, Central Bank and other major line ministries. They are all doing their thing. So we don't want to get into that level of micromanagement. But we do want to go beyond a superficial election manifesto. This document will be in between. That kind of report has not been produced before and at that strategic level, we have not posed the question to the people. But the people cannot respond to all of them. For example, suppose there is a certain target to achieve 10 percent solar-renewable energy in the total energy mix within a certain time frame. An ordinary person may not know if that is desirable, but he/she can indicate if they feel that more solar is better.

Q. Having shared the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007, you advocated for people to do small things which will lead to a big difference rather than waiting for governments to make the big decisions. Hence this initiative seems to be trying to live up to that principle?

A. Yes, exactly. This is the framework called Sustainomics which I presented at the Rio Earth Summit (1992). This is the first principle, how do we make development more sustainable? It is like a mountain peak, which is covered in mist. When you ask people what is sustainable development, they have no idea. We don't know where the peak is but we can still keep climbing uphill and feel empowered to do something. For example, at the personal level, if you switch off the light when you leave the room, turn off a tap or plant a tree - you are moving towards sustainable development. This first step is embedded in the process for preparing this document.

Q. How will you adapt the SDGs into the Sri Lankan context?

A. The President has said clearly that we will prioritise, so we will not blindly follow all 17 UN SDG. The structure and composition of the expert commission will reflect the priorities the President sets out (poverty, education, health, agriculture, etc). Those will be the highest priorities but we will seek to include other areas as well. But finally, it will certainly be Sri Lanka's agenda that will be followed within an integrative framework, since each SDG is still isolated.

They have said that the SDGs should be clustered but when you take for example the SDG on poverty; you have water, energy, food, health, jobs. Urbanisation, etc. that are all linked to it. In the end it is some official in a ministry who has to set the target. Basically what we are saying is that to set the SDG target, you have to have these integrated within a national plan before. My take on the SDGs is that first we have to harmonise what is going on within the government and then integrate the SDG into that framework.

The expert commission will be assigned to the most important national goals (will not necessarily strictly follow the SDG themes -- some will coincide and some will not). For example we have a governance theme which will comprise of reconciliation, peace, etc., but it does not exactly correspond with any of the SDGs. We will have experts who will look at what is going on with government, and then they will ask business and civil society for their views, and harmonise everything. Since it is a strategic document, we can have integrate plans and policies at a more generalised level without going into detailed modelling.

Q. So you are following the second principle of Sustainomics -- looking to integrate the three key elements of environment, society and economics into this framework?

A. For example, we may have a clusters to harmonise the economic aspects – getting key inputs from policy and planning people, Finance Ministry, Central Bank, industry, urbanisation, etc. Under the social cluster we could have poverty, inequality, reconciliation, human rights, basic needs, etc. Environment might include land use, forests, water, pollution, marine environment, etc... Within each cluster, sub-themes will be pursued by experts who will network with specific ministries and specific business community leaders and academia. We will thus respect the second principle of Sustainomics- balance and integration. Hopefully, better harmonisation will be achieved here, something that is a bit weak right now. This is the President's concern, and hopefully this document will help him in that task.

Q. Integration and working across fields is not we have achieved so far. This will be quite a challenge?

A. people tend to forget that ultimately what we are protecting is the democratic space in which we live. The moment one aspect becomes too powerful, it affects everything else. For example, in previous years the government pursued huge unproductive mega projects to build economic capital, but this destroyed the social capital and the environmental capital and crushed the democratic space, which must be protected. This is very much in President's mind. When he talks about reconciliation it is more than the different communities talking to each other, it is about protecting the democratic space where all can talk freely and resolve issues in a civilised way.

The third core principle of Sustainomics is about innovation and fresh ideas. We are doing a lot in government but some of it is still business as usual. There is a whole generation of younger people using new tools, including ICT, mobile technology, social media, etc. The number one thing we need to do is to change the present unsustainable value system, built on greed, selfishness, violence, etc. Under the section on governance and education, we hope to touch on these issues.

Q. Some years ago, you launched the novel concept of Millennium Consumption goals at the UN, and one outcome was the inclusion of this concept in SDG 12 on Responsible consumption. The Prime Minister recently released the Economic Development Plan which speaks of accelerated growth. Aren't these two principles contradictory?

A. The present government's development programme has some inconsistencies, but there are good reasons for it. When the government took office, there was an economic crisis - primarily the debt issue. Because of that, the first priority was to pick up the economy. The government is still busy remedying the unproductive mega projects. We cannot abandon them so the government is trying to recover the losses. There are some inconsistencies because we were so far off the sustainability path that we can't jump back on to it immediately. And this report will help us get back on track.

This report will cover 10-15 years, but we only have six months to produce it!

We will first step forward to 2020, where we have reasonable confidence, then to 2025, and if we have the data and time, we will step forward to 2030 - although that may be more vision than reality.

This is a one off report, so we will do this and the commission will be dissolved.

Q. When you go to the people, how will you get this information you need? Does everyone understand the meaning of sustainability?

A. Yes, but we won't necessarily go to them at the launch stage. In the initial stages we have to digest a lot of existing information generated by the government, businesses and civil society, and the experts know where to get them. We can also solicit suggestions. This will be put together in a preliminary first draft. And that will be taken to the people. For example, you cannot simply go and ask the person on the street what they think of the sustainable development goals (SDG). But on the other hand, if we have a first draft which says we want to make sure that all the have access to water and that it may take the next five years to achieve, you can go and ask the dry zone farmer for his views. He might say, ‘we can't wait five years, why can't you give it to me in two?' So we put out something which is relevant to them- with a certain target, time frame and how to achieve it. Then we can get a more meaningful response.

Q. Who will be responsible for implementation?

A. That is a different matter. The President has a whole cabinet of people to do that. For example, he can say, ‘This is the framework I like until 2020'. It is a strategic framework so he can go to a specific line ministry and check if their detailed plans fall within the overall framework, and he can thereby hold them accountable.

Q. Given our history, what is the guarantee that the framework will be followed?

A. That is up to the President. We will go step by step, when climbing the mountain. At present the President does not have an adequate framework to make decisions. This is called the consistency framework. For example, the Energy Ministry could say, ‘we want to supply 20 percent of solar in the energy mix within the next five years'. But but the Finance Ministry has to decide whether there is enough money to do that kind of thing. So the consistency framework could help the President and public see how these things fitting together. And the President can ask the ministries whether they have talked to each and seen what is possible.

Q. Many say that countries like ours cannot afford SDGs, so who will fund all of this?

A. There is an important aspect of perception here. Development must be there to achieve sustainability. In development, the economy is the main driver. You cannot have sustainability if you beggar the economy. Economic sustainability requires that the monetary and financial aspects are respected. Then environmental sustainability says that you protect the environment to the extent that you can afford but at the same time you tell the economic policymakers that the growth pattern should not unduly damage the environment either. These alternative growth paths, are called Inclusive Green Growth (IGG) paths.

We should not slavishly follow the same unsustainable path to development as the rich countries. Instead, Sri Lanka must find its own path to prosperity, but in a way that does not harm our environment and makes growth inclusive for all.

Q. Ten years ago you had said that all countries need their own sustainable development agenda and the main obstacle was lack of political will and that bureaucrats were lazy to try out new things. So now that you have been asked to help in developing a framework for Sri Lanka, do you believe change can happen?

A. Yes. I am hopeful in the following sense. We will produce a report which is user friendly and people understand what is intended. And it will also be operationally useful to the President as he decides to harmonise and put some order into the development path. The Prime Minister also endorses this approach, so we have a consensus at the highest level.

I am satisfied that the President was very sincere when he asked us to make this report and that it will not simply sit on some shelf. The report is not a detailed plan that will propose specific projects, but it will check the consistency and harmony of what is going on. That is the difference.

Secondly it is about carrying the people with you. As the President starts to implement policy within an integrated framework, hopefully he will be able to say to the people, 'this is what I plan to do and you were consulted on this'. The people will be empowered. They also can put new questions back to the government.

Q. We have had goals like the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) but in the end we have not been able to fully realise them. What do you think is our obstacle?

A. First, 'is it a question of time?' Yes. Secondly, to what extent was the goal too ambitious given that time frame? Both are linked. There was a question of child nutrition which came up with the MDGs, I think given another few years, we could have closed the gap, but not completely. Because if you talk about poverty alleviation, that can be done, but 100% poverty eradication is not achievable even in rich countries.

We have to see the goals within the time frame. That is also the problem with the SDGs. We are talking about 2030, which is a very uncertain future. How do you set a goal? That is precisely why our document will be the first step. Some of the goals may be meet, and some not. We do our best. The guiding principle is leave no one behind. At times, you may achieve 95 percent on one goal, and only 25 percent on another. Rather than trying to go from 95 to 100 on the first, it may be better to use that effort to go from 25 to 30 on the second.

We are not saying we are achieving sustainable development; that is impossible, it is a moving target. We are making development more sustainable.

Q. The government has called to increase the pace of development with a massive drive towards urbanization. In such a scenario how do you press for sustainable development? More importantly there's an argument that sustainable development can only be achieved once poverty alleviation and urbanization have been achieved. What do you think?

A. You have to distinguish between trends and a responsible life style. Trends sometimes are irreversible. We might say that all these urban centres are unsustainable but you can't swim against the global current of urbanisation. So what we can do it is manage it. If the Megapolis is going to happen and is part of government policy, we can do is make it more sustainable by learning from other green and sustainable cities, worldwide.

The IGG path not only assures prosperity, environmental protection and inclusivity. It also alleviates poverty, by it raising the poor out of poverty along a sustainable path, and persuading the rich to pursue more sustainable and less wasteful lifestyles.